Here is almost everything you need to know about real estate ethics: Follow the Golden Rule. Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you.
Yesterday I sat in an NAR ethics class. I was somewhat surprised by how many agents did poorly on the quiz questions. There was one question that I may have been one of the few out of over one hundred agents to get it right.
The question was if an agent calls on a listing and asks the expiration date, if the listing agent refuses to give that information can they contact the seller directly? The answer is under the C.O.E., yes. I knew that from discussions here on Active Rain.
When dealing with ethics, you take the COE, the state law, the local COE and use the strictest one. In this case there is an even higher authority. I would never do it period. I follow the golden rule.
As real estate professionals we should know the COE and the laws like the back of our hands. When we come to a situation where we are not sure, consult your broker and always follow the Golden Rule. If you are not sure it is most likely not OK.
In the end there are two agents on every transaction. When you list a home for sale you are depending on other agents to help sell it. When you have buyers you need to cooperate with other agents to find and get them in the home of their dreams. So even if what you are doing meets the letter of the law or the COE, it may not meet the Golden Rule and it may hurt your reputation among other agents in the area and your clients.
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Randy L. Prothero, REALTOR®, ABR, AHWD, CRS, e-PRO, GRI, SFR
Century 21 Liberty Homes
Randy Prothero is well established as an expert in working with military / VA clients and first time home buyers. His home seller's (listing) campaign is one of the most aggressive marketing programs in the area.
Based out of Mililani, Hawaii. Randy services the island of Oahu (Honolulu County) and the Leeward Regional Chairman of the Honolulu Board of Realtors. To improve overall professionalism in his area Randy also offers classes for real estate agents.
www.HawaiiRandy.com * Oahu (Honolulu County) Property Search * Hawaii Military Relocations
Unfortunately when you throw money into the mix, right and wrong becomes cloudy to some people. The possibility of a deal gets them looking for any shred of a loophole.
What is the rationale behind the rule regarding the expiration date anyway, why should you have to divulge terms of a contract you have?
The golden rule is the way I check myself on things, whether it's real estate, or my everyday life - it's a very good rule.
Randy,
I think you are absolutely right. So, you yourself bring a situation, where COE would say yes, but you would not do it anyway. This is an interesting concept, as your Golden rule will work for you. So, when you say that every agent has to know "the COE and the laws like the back of our hands", I am not sure you do.
If you have a mechanism within you, it would be enough in 99% of the time.
BTW, if COE allows us to get the expiration date, why MLS would not show it? Not logical, but understandable.
The gut feeling is what I go by....and I sleep very well....every night :)
Hi Randy,
Good post, I teach some of the ethics courses and bring the Golden Rule into them.
All the best
Terry - Good point. I have never had an agent ask that question, but if they do I will freely share the date.
Hope - You are so right it is the way we should all live our lives.
Jon - You make some good points. The reason we should know the COE is because it may not always be logical as are some of the laws and the penalties for an honest mistake can be harsh.
Sally - If in doubt my personal code of ethics is as strict or stricter than the rules and laws.
Kevin - Gald to hear it, I can not imagine teaching ethics without the Golden Rule.
It's sad to see how people confuse the order of: what's ethical, what's legal and what's in their own interest. Get one out of order and problems ensue; most wind up on the nightly news. The Golden Rule still rules. Thanks for the insightful post!
Howard - Thank you. I hope the only way I ever make the nightly news is for something good.
I don't think ours has the same rule or at least I know it doesn't show the other agents the date...we can see it on our own listing but I doubt there are agents out there just looking to ask that question ...only the ones that are waiting to steal it away when it does and that's pretty lame if you ask me. I agree with the comment above...it doesn't make sense.
Good post, Randy. If you feel unsure about soomething...follow your gut instinct. It probably will not lead you astray.
Randy,
You've got that right...The Golden Rule...Rules!
Neal - That rule must have been created by an attorney.
Gary - If you are unsure it is most likely not OK.
Monika - It works for me.
Randy, you are absolutely right. The "Golden Rule" also applies to the Fair Housing Law. Thanks for sharing.
Good Post!
Randy. I don't know about Hawaii, but there is no need for two agents on every transaction here.
One agent can represent either a buyer or seller and give custodial care to an unrepresented buyers or seller. One agent, two consumers, one transaction.
Of course, if both parties wish to be "represented. . . . . ."
Randy - I had the very exact experience when I attended my ethics class a little over a month ago. It's just amazing. Have a great day my friend.
Michael - That is so true.
Lenn - That is the rule here also. It is the exception though.
George - You do learn a lot of things by watching and listening to the class members. That is a good example of why I prefer not taking them online.
that is a very worthy outlook. I always treat everyone as I would like to be treated. Unfortunately there are a lot of our peers out there that don't believe this. Hawaii is lucky to have you,
It is interesting to me that we have come into a world where "ethics" are a required topic for all REALTORS(R). Sad but True!
I agree with you, I would never try to take a listing from another agent while they have it listed. I can't imagine why any agent would want to call a listing agent and find out when there listing expiries.
I think your advice to follow the golden rule is wonderful. But some people will do whatever they have to for me. My mom always said "What goes around comes around" so I am with you - Follow the Golden Rule.
Randy, I absolutely agree. You are 100% right on the mark.
Wow, a lot of responses. But you're not going to get any from the ones not following the "golden rule". But they probably aren't spending any time on AR either......... If only everyone would wake up and follow the same rules......How lovely things could be.........
Our MLS does show the date but does not allow you to do a search using the Xdate as criteria. There are a plenty of agents who start marketing to "about to expire" listings.
The golden rule and some basic communication skills would go a long way. I find often just discussing things and listening to both side, resolves most issues.
Randy- And in some cases, "Do unto others Better than they do unto you"....just because someone else doesn't do what's right doesn't mean we have to fall into the same behavior.
Thanks, Randy -- appreciated the post.
Li
Randy~
I subscribe to your BLOG because you always remind me of things-important...like the Golden Rule, and being attentive to the professional practice of real estate. THX!
Living by the golden rule is really the smart way to live in the long run. Brings more friends, more business, more sound sleep at night.
this is how I do my business...by the golden rule-I am nice to everyone and I try to do the right thing always.
Thanks!
Always Follow the Golden Rule! :)
Tom Davis
World Class Delaware Realtor
Randy,
It all comes down to putting one's head on the pillow at night. Sure is easier to sleep if we follow that Golden Rule.
Randy - The Golden Rule seems to fit in everything we do in our business, and elsewhere. And it's so much easier to keep in mind that some of the COE stuff that is so often open to interpretation. I imagine the question you reference generated a great deal of discussion - it certainly did in the class I took last year.
Jeff
Randy you can never go wrong by following the "Golden Rule". The problem seems to be with people who expect everyone to follow the "Golden Rule" when it comes to them, but somehow they think that they are some kind of exception to the rule and do not need to follow it.
Well said to many time greed gets in the way of the golden rule.
Randy~ Following the golden rule is something that some people have a hard time with.
I couldn't imagine NOT following it!
I don't really get the answer that you HAVE to disclose your listing's expiration date if a realtor asks for it? Why and what is the point????
Randy, wise words. I like the simple rules the best. You know they won't change with a new update of the code.
Great post Randy! Just think how simple life would be if everyone lived by the GOLDEN RULE!!
Randy - I agree that building our business by the Golden Rule is really the only way to go. I have tried to do this since I started in early 1997, and it has served me well.
Randy, here in the Sacramento area the expiration date is right in the MLS. This could be avoided if your MLS system would just have that as an entry item. It is required here. The Golden Rule is left for other avenues and I agree should always be followed.
Randy, how can anyone go wrong with the Golden rule? A great foundation for doing the right thing.
The "golden rule" is fine for friends, but I think I'd rather behave as a businessman, and that rule is "Maximize Profit". Naturally poor ethics would likely hurt profits in the long run, so the two are entertwined. But personally, I'd rather a good business strategy book than say, the bible to guide how I run my business, but that's just me.
Maybe I'm a horse of a purple color. The last time I took the professional standards class, I recall scouring the code of ethics and SPECIFICALLY noting that clause in there and taking note that it was something that could be capitalized upon.
I've had agents in my market express anger that I got their listing when it expired and I think THAT is poor business ethics. If I lose a listing to another agent, I respect them and merely REFLECT...what did I do wrong? Why did I lose it? Did I want to? etc. This is the proper approach. One should never get mad in business, it's a waste of energy and always a no-no in negotiation.
I would also point out, that if NAR says this is okay (to call a seller if an agent won't release info) then it IS clearly "ethical" and I have NOTHING against an agent who does it. If I was in a bigger market, I would do it ALL DAY LONG. What's the line from the movie Wallstreet? "Greed is good, Greed works." Well, not always but listen: We're not here to be friends, it's good to get along with other agents, yes. But frankly, if they get upset because you follow the NAR code of ethics and call their seller because they were avoiding telling you info that BY ALL RIGHTS IS YOURS TO KNOW, then they should do something else for a living, they don't belong in ANY business, IMO.
Just my two cents :)
Also, for those who keep asking "WHY?" it's pretty obvious folks:
Don't you work expireds??? One would want to know the date a listing expires so they know when they are allowed to call the seller and swoop in and take the listing :)
I also think, if I remember that part of the Code correctly, that if that agent refuses to tell you the expiration date, and you thus ETHICALLY call that seller, you can also negotiate a contract which begins on the day of expiration....
Again, a VERY valuable bit of knowledge in a big city. I think only small-town agents would have a beef with this. But I notice everyone is ignoring the obvious: What about that agent that REFUSES to tell you something you have a RIGHT to know???? How are they behaving? I think they deserve it, if they are so afraid and lack confidence in their service that they won't tell you, good for the agent that goes ahead and calls the seller. That's how I see it, and I'm used to being in the minority, but hey, at least NAR agrees with me :)
If you uphold your values they will speak volumes both for you and about you.
Good Luck and Sell Well!
The only problem I have with the Golden Rule is that different people have different standards about what they would and would not mind other people doing to them. I like it spelled out more clearly than that. Great idea, though!
Ray H. - Thank you. If you treat others the right way you will definitely win in the end. The top professionals in your area will gravitate towards you and you clients.
Steve H. - Our politicians are also required to take an ethics class. The plus is we get to refresh on the laws. The sad truth is you can not teach ethics. You either have them or you don't.
Mindy & Jay - I have not had one do it yet, but I am sure there a re a few out there testing the edge of the envelope.
Teresa M. - That is always the best way.
David M. - Thank you
Linda C. - If they all followed the Golden Rule, we would have a lot less to write about. LOL
Randy...GREAT POST. Do unto others as you would want done unto you. It is sometimes very scarry when I see who I have to deal with in this industry.
Joe V. - I have a listing that we withdrew from the market. We are bringing it back on in a few weeks. I forgot to warn my client, he has had steady contacts from new agents trying to get his listing.
Joan W. - Good point, communications can head off a lot of problems.
Kathy M. - I always remember the saying, no one makes you feel or do anything. Only you do.
Li - Thank you
janeAnne - Thank you for those kind words.
Sarah & John - Good point, sleeping well at night is a big part of this.
Michael S. - I have gotten business, simply by treating people I meet like they are the most important person in my life. You never know if that scruffy person you meet is coming from work and is a potential home buyer. Or of they have a family member or friend looking to buy or sell a home.
Tom D. - A winning plan.
Diane B. - I believe that.
Jeff D. - I remember a post from Broker Bryant several months back and it also stimulated a lot of discussion on that topic.
George S. - Those folks will always limit their growth.
Terry W. - That type of greed is short sighted. They may come out ahead in the short term, but lose in the long run.
Vickie M. - If you refuse to disclose that, The COE allows the other agent to contact your clients directly. It is easier to just give them the expiration date if they ask.
Tim M. - You are right, if they do not have ethics no class will fix that.
Jean G. - It would make life so much more pleasant.
Teresa H. - There would definitely be a lot less drama.
Jason C. - I find my life is much simpler as a result.
Gena R. - I am fine with it not being posted. I have not had an agent call for the expiration date yet, but would give it to them if they did. I personally would never ask another agent that question or call their client if they didn't give the date. This an island, you reputation is everything.
Gary W. - You can't go wrong.
Brendan M. - That is a decision you have to make. I would never do it. There is a lot of other business I can go after. I do not need to crowd the other agents in my market. If I damage my relationship with them, it will hurt my clients. I depend on my reputation and relationships with the other top agents in my areas to help sell my listings.
Brendan M. - So far I have not had one agent call and ask me for the expiration date. If they did, I would give it to them. I would also have no respect for that agent.
Allison S. - Thank you for the kind words.
Emily L. - The question is how do you want other people to feel about you? That is really the point. You conduct yourself how you want to be remembered.
William F. - I have run into a few. They make interesting and educational blog posts for sure. Fortunately they are the minority.
Randy, I am with you...I am not calling, Period!
Randy, great post! Following the Golden Rule is of the utmost importance when working with a client, another agent or the public-at-large. Unfortunately, too many agents tend follow a different principle, "Gold Rules". Of course, this rule may pull in a quick buck, but it is damaging to long-term business, relationships with other agents and to the public's perception of our industry.
Here in Indianapolis more COE violations are reported on agents with over 15 years experience or more. The more experience agents cannot remember the rules.
I am not sure that the Golden Rule can be used to adjudicate disputes. There needs to be an ethics code that addresses specifics.
Recently I wrote a post asking mortgage originators to identify tangible measures that a customer could use to evaluate the ethics of an originator. I did not get the tangible answers that I had hoped for.
My suspicion is that the COE for agents is grounded on disputes and actual situations that arose. Ethics is a hard thing to administer when opposite sides are in conflict.
Richard
Jeremy - I think that is a good practice.
Phil - I am amazed how many people think so short sighted. You are so right. Your reputation is so important in this business.
Indianapolis - That is a sad statement about your market. I have not seen that here. Those who are the violators will not last that long. We live on an island and a bad reputation will kill you.
Brendan - I can not disagree with you more. It is attitudes like yours that give our industry a bad reputation. Are we selling used cars or the most expensive thing in our clients lives? Contacting another agent's clients does not make you or our industry look good in that client's eyes. It sure will not help your reputation with area agents.
That practice will also have negative effects on your clients. When you list a home, will the other agents in the area go out of their way to help you sell it?
I am not worried about another agent stealing my clients. I am concerned with bottom feeding practices that hurt our industry's reputation and waste a lot of people's time.
It is disappointing that a broker is expressing these opinions in a public forum.
I am proud to say that at our last ethics class the same question was asked and we all replied with the Golden Rule. From what I hear our local board of Realtors has a reputation of being extremely cooperative with each other. After all, the name of the game is to get the property SOLD. So, one hand washes the other.
Lois - The way we do business is unique in the world of business. First we compete for the listing, then we share information and try to help each other sell it.
Hello, Iam knew to reading blogs but it sounds like some take what you said out of context.
i totaly agree with the golden rule concept.
Leanna - It is absolutely amazing. When I write about ethics or professional behavior, I can guarantee to bring out a few who will opening tell the word they are unprofessional or unethical.
Randy, Even as a child I couldn't lie. I just knew if I stold something the cops would be waiting right outside the store for me. So I don't do those things. If something feels wrong (we all know that feeling in the pit of our stomach) to me, I just don't do it. Great Post.
Bob - Apparently not everyone agrees with us. I hope to not have to do business with them.
Randy: Try the MOTHER TEST. If you would be embarrasssed/ashamed to tell your mother or explain to her what you did, it's probably not right!
Erica - I like that one. I will keep it in my memory banks.
Great post (as usual for you!!) - Mahalo. The only problem with the Golden Rule, some of the worst offenders are living by it. They expect to get treated in the same way they treat people.
I find 2 things sad with all this:
1. Our members are have to have COE training/testing every 4 years. What a statement about our ethics
2. My daughter missed 1 question on the state exam. It was about what fine she would pay if she didn't renew her license in time. Aren't their better questions to be asking new applicants?
Greg - I agree completely. Our state exam focuses on who to pay, when to pay and when to renew your license too much. They need to spend more energy on how to protect the public and how to sell a home.
I have a pretty straight forward question. Are emails between a realtor and client considered "confidential"?
If I emailed my realtor some thoughts I had about a counteroffer, asked for her to contact me and advise me on concerns expressed in the email....and she in turn forwards that email to the other realtor without consulting me.... Is that breaking confidentiality?
I would appreciate your feedback...
Randy, Absolutely right on the golden rule. Its sad that so many realtors don't use the COE. I have my book and need to study. Seems like such a daunting task but I need to do it. Thanks for the reminder.
David - I would never do that without my clients authorization.
Shannon - If you use the Golden Rule you will find you have 95% of the COE more than covered.